Open Discussion: June 4th, 2017
(Last Updated On: June 4, 2017)

Today marks the fourth of June, meaning that, yes, it is Sunday. Every Sunday or every week comes a thing called “Open Discussion” here on OAG, and today is no exception. Open Discussions allow folks around and about to jot down their thoughts regarding a specific topic or to disregard what is being talked about and center focus on something else pressing.

If you are new here and have no idea what Open Discussions tackle, these subjects more times than often peer into the gaming world and ask questions about past, present and future video games. In this series of Open Discussions folks will be able to stay on topic or they can go astray and speak their mind.

I should note that there is no censorship in that if you post a comment it will stay up. I should also note that if WordPress or Disqus removes a comment due let us know so that the original comment can be restored.

Now that that is out of the way, this week’s Open Discussion is about fighting games. With the recent debut of Injustice 2 and Tekken 7, the fighting game community has been active in making guides, Vs. videos, combo videos, character videos, posting up different comments in forum boards and doing quite a bit of stuff.

In addition to the above, what fighting game holds a place in your heart? The fighting game can be old like Mike Tyson’s Punch-Out, present like Injustice 2 or Tekken 7, or it can be a game that you are looking forward to that is in development as we speak. This means that games like Street Fighter, Killer Instinct, Mortal Kombat, Smash Bros., The King of Fighters, Soulcalibur, BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, Virtue Fighter and so on are more than welcome to be listed below, which if you want you can list other types of fighting games that are your favorite, too.

And lastly, you don’t have to stay on topic if something of interest is pressing, but if you do want to stay on topic what is your favorite fighting game?

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  • RichardGristle

    CVS2 will always be my favorite fighter, but as far as current series go, it’s gotta be either Guilty or KoF. I always love the stuff that Melty Bread puts out as well.

    Injustice 2 does nothing for me and MVC:I looks so goddamn wack, but I’m interested in Tekken 7 as someone that’s never really gotten into 3D fighters in the past.

  • Kiryu

    So it seems like sjws now want to downsize Tifa’s breasts in FFVII remake.
    Remember women,your big breasts are offensive.

    • RichardGristle

      Fit women with nice tits forever BTFO by blue-haired 300-pounders!

    • Disqusted

      Totally saw that coming from a billion miles away.

      • Kiryu

        Even if i don’t care for the game i hope SE grows a pair and tells those sjws to fuck off.

  • Disqusted

    My current favorite fighting game is still Melty Blood Actress Again Current Code, even though I haven’t played it for a while. I like most of the characters, the many variations of them, how they’re often animated well, the feel of the attacks, the overall story (I was a fan of Tsukihime, which it’s based off) and the tons of great music. That Steam port was such a horrible disappointment.

    I tried a bunch of recent fighters, like that Blade Arcus game, Dengeki whatsis, and the one with Soniko as a DLC character, etc. They all felt bare bones and too lacking in some way. Blade Arcus doesn’t even have a proper last boss! I didn’t try MvsC3 because it had too many characters I didn’t care about.

    I generally like classic Street Fighter and The King of Fighters series, but the ones I like most are probably SF2 (most iterations), SFZ/A1, SF3 3rd Strike, KOF98, KOF2000. Mostly because of the overall feel, music, etc. Didn’t like SFZ/A2 and 3 because they felt “thick” and the music/hits didn’t sound as good as 1. I didn’t like SF3 at first (too many characters I didn’t care about), but I grew to appreciate all the detail that went into 3rd Strike.

    I think a lot of people judge games based on how balanced they are when playing against other people, but I usually only play singleplayer or with close friends. I don’t play to win so much as I want to have a good, enjoyable battle. It’s not fun to beat people easily, it’s not fun to lose easily, but it’s fun to have a close match with exciting or amusing moments. I also enjoy the “epicness” of boss battles. Older KOFs had amazing bosses, although they were often cheap as shit.

    I used to like the Mortal Kombat series, but I kinda lost interest when I realized they weren’t very well-designed as fighting games. You know, AI constantly beating everything with a quick jump kick. Same goes for Art of Fighting, I used to really like it until I realized the gameplay was a mess.

    Was a big fan of Dead or Alive 2 (lots of characters and fighting styles I like, combat feels great, environmental interaction is great) but then the series moved onto consoles I didn’t own. Wasn’t able to get back into DoA until 5, and I feel like 5 has focused too much on DLC outfits instead of real content.

    I play Tekken from time to time, and tried to get into Soul Calibur but it never really hooked me, for some reason. I feel like the commands in those games (including DoA) are much, much harder to remember. Even if I go into training mode and try every move out, I tend to forget them quickly. But I still remember a ton of 10-hit combos from Tekken for some reason.

    Hated SF4/5 because of the awful velocities/movement/animation, and again, too many characters I don’t care about. Hated the last few of Capcom’s and NeoGeo’s 2d fighters (CvS, CFJ, Rage of the Dragon, Matrimelee, etc) because they were so generic and “normalized” for balancing purposes.

    Older fighting games had a lot of fine details like Hugo’s standing MP animation changing speed to be slightly faster if it successfully connects instead of whiffing, and more complex timing/movement velocities in general. I know because I tried to accurately reproduce many of them in MUGEN a long time ago.

    As with animation in general, anticipation, timing and weight are important. Sadly, those are often lacking in recent games, for sake of balance, or comboing, or because the devs are just shit. I really hate floaty gravity in fighting games. There should always be a sense of weight. When characters jump in SF4/5, it feels so awful. When characters fall over in SF4, their falling animation axis is disjointed from their actual falling velocity/position. That is a very amateur mistake I often saw people do in their MUGEN characters.

    An example of how crappy CFJ is: when they put Urien into it, they just slapped in his spritesheet without the axis movements coded into the original SF3 engine, so when he does his attacks where he’s supposed to physically move, the sprite just jerks back and forth. It really showed that whoever replaced Capcom’s seasoned fighting game team, did not inherit their knowledge.

    Recently been playing Tekken Tag Tournament 2. Tekken has a good sense of weight, so a lot of attacks look and feel great. Really hate the recent Tekken music though. Thankfully, TTT2 allows players to replace the music with Tekken 1-5 BGM.

    Also played KOF14, and I think they did an overall great job porting the feel of the series from 2d to 3d, but there are way too many characters I just don’t care about. They should have just brought back all the old characters. The new ones that I do care about (eg. Alice) feel way too barebones. I feel like they purposely made a bunch of characters outfits ugly as shit, to sell better ones as DLC. The bosses are also kinda disappointing and boring compared to older KOFs.

    I used to play KOF98 with the general goal of not losing a single round or continue, but the AI difficulty in KOF14 gets dirty as shit. It’s the first fighting game I’ve ever seen where AI likes to bust out 90% damage supers/combos while guarding one of my combos.

    I actually found a really stupid AI exploit in KOF14. When you throw a projectile, on higher difficulties they often try to roll through it. Depending on the character, you can take advantage of this and punish them when they come out of roll. Easiest character to do this with is Athena. Throw a slow Psycho Ball, run up and mash the A button for insta-combo, repeat. Works on everyone on max difficulty. Similarly, Geese can do a guarded weak Reppuu Ken combo, and the AI will try to roll through it in the middle of the combo, leaving them open to a running combo.

    • Mr.Towel

      I think a lot of people judge games based on how balanced they are when
      playing against other people, but I usually only play singleplayer or
      with close friends. Because of that, I think I’m mostly incapable of the
      more psychological aspects of fighters. I don’t play to win so much as I
      want to have a good, enjoyable battle. I don’t find it fun to beat
      people easily, or lose easily, but I enjoy having a close match with
      exciting or amusing moments. I also enjoy the “epicness” of boss
      battles. Older KOFs had amazing bosses, although they were often cheap
      as shit.

      That sums up how I play fighting games.

      It was one of the reasons I liked Bloody Roar so much, it was an easy fighting game, it was easy to do long combos but without feeling cheap. It was awesome to play with close friends, so much that many times we fought while putting handicaps on the characters on purpose just to see what kind of crazy shit we could come up with in the middle of the fight.

      I can understanding how overwhelming GG can be. I don’t think I would even bother to learn about the game today. I remember I first got interested in it because I loved their animations, but initially I didn’t even play the fighting modes, I was doing only the beat’em up modes, only later after I got tired of the beat’em up I started to get in the fights themselves.

      I got interested in KoF because of their animations too but the game was too fucking hard for me. Which is amazing to me as I could take on Justice boss from GG fairly ok, still, KoF were ridiculously hard. Same reason I couldn’t play Darkstalkers, too fucking hard.

      SFEX+A still is my favorite SF game. Man, so many characters I can’t forget. Garuda, Skullomania, C. Jack, Doctrine Dark… I still have Bison voices one Psycho Cannon and Psycho Crushers buried deep inside my memory. So sad many of their characters never appeared in another SF game.

      • I liked the characters from Street Fighter EX, such as Akira and Skullomania, but man did I hate the controls and the stiff animations.

        GG was a bit too hard for me to get into, and I just didn’t like the technicals all that much because it was more about explosive moves than martial arts techniques, and it put me off pretty quick. But the King of Fighters… oh boy, the King of Fighters was my jam. I loved that and The Last Blade 2, along with Samurai Shodown 3 (the ones that came after were all poorly balanced, especially compared to the frame-timing of Samurai Shodown 3, which was just pitch perfect).

        The skill ceilings of SNK games were pretty high but I always thought they were mostly fair once you understood how the fighters behaved, so for me that was a big lure.

        Capcom’s fighters were always a bit too cartoony for my tastes, even though I liked a lot of their properties, including the MvC and X-Men games.

        • RichardGristle
          • Disqusted

            Yeah, I love the SFEX soundtrack. Still listen to it from time to time.

        • Mr.Towel

          Ooohh I remember the moony animations. Looking back now, I think it was an issue with working on early 3D. Because I remember the SF established characters, Ryu, Dhalsim, Zangief, were specially stiff and slow where new and original characters… weren’t necessarily fast, they still had their moon physics and kicks to their jumps, but their moves and its animations felt a lot better. Specially after you got used to do the moves, moving around the stage became much more fluent and quicker after that. But I do remember I never played Dhalsim because how incredibly slow he was.

          The fighting styles was another thing that attracted me to Bloody Roar. The gimmick of the game is that every fighter can transform in some animal, similar in construction the animal styles from real world Wushu but going crazier. Many characters moves were based around real world fighting styles, like kickboxing for the Wolf, Military Combat Techniques for the Leopard. Some were just crazy, I don’t think there’s a real world Beetle or Mole fighting style out there. The Tiger fighting style is one of the best I have ever found in any game though. Seems to be based on the Tiger Styles from Hung Kuen because there’s some crazy incredibly low horse instances, probably the prowling cat ones, that spring to very high kicks.

          Bloody Roar is a game worth remembering on our times. Because the game had queer characters, back in the 90s, and they weren’t stupid either. One of my favorites was the Boar, a butch dyke female fighter.

          There was also the Fox, which was a queer gay fox before furries invented queer gay foxes.

          Yep, that’s actually a man, called Hans Taubemann. He was an easy character to play too so beginners always used him. In my young innocence and bad 3D models I thought for a long time he was a she. Only on the story mode it finally sunk in.

          The Leopard was also another masculine female character.

          These were all done before all this SJW stuff and they didn’t felt shoved in. They actually were interesting exactly because they were different and rich, they exist alright along side with other sexy and interesting female characters like the Bat or the Bunny. They had their own stories, dilemmas and problems.

          I have to try to play more SNK fighting games, I really love their animations and their timing. To me, they are still are the gods of frame by frame animation, there’s some stuff on Metal Slug that still drops my jaw on the floor.

          Maybe I was doing something wrong with KoF because I do remember getting blistered thumbs trying to play it. That’s not right. I really want to give it another try.

          • Wow, didn’t know that about Bloody Roar. I played a few of the games back in the day but I was never invested into them like KoF and Tekken. I’ll likely go back and give them a try, especially since you mention that their fighting styles are based on the old Chinese kung fu. Seems cool and we don’t get enough of those kind of games (I try to support the dude who makes the Kings of Kung Fu and Shaolin vs Wu Tang games but he’s still far and away from having competent fighters).

        • Disqusted

          I actually prefer the SFEX+A animations over SF4/5’s. I don’t recall them being that stiff. They don’t look like the 2d versions, but they have a much better feel of anticipation, timing, weight and velocity than SF4/5’s animations.

          Oh yeah, I used to love Samurai Spirits series, up until it started getting weird around 4. I was never good at that series. I sorta liked the Last Blade games, but at the same time there was something about them that I didn’t quite like. Not sure what, now.

      • Disqusted

        The problem is it’s kinda difficult to find good friends on the same level who don’t have huge egos. My brother was always trying to cheap me out and then gave stupid excuses and quit if he lost. Another ex-friend couldn’t do combos, so he just picked Shin Gouki and spammed air fireballs until he beat me.

        I knew someone who trash-talked like crazy (I don’t like trash-talking) and then they quit when I kept beating them in SSF2T with my 500ms Dictator vs their… 100ms? characters. The other people I know who sorta play fighters sometimes, mostly just do jump kick, sweep, throw and occasionally throw out specials.

        For GG I only learned how to play Dizzy and Ramlethal up to a certain point. The AI isn’t that hard to beat. The friend I play fighters with is around the same level at GG too, so we haven’t improved much together.

        What’s hard about KoF and Darkstalkers? The AI? I think the AI in those games start cheating at around the 3rd match or so. Some games have the AI take much less damage and deal far more than players. I usually find ways to take advantage of AI weaknesses, I guess.

        I like a lot of the SFEX+A characters too. Blair Dame, Darun, Pullum Purna, Kairi, Hokuto, Garuda, Cracker Jack, etc. Some of those characters appeared in Fighting Layer. I’d really like to see a Fighting Layer 2.

        • Mr.Towel

          It’s the AI, never played against someone on those. I do remember getting to a boss who was an old guy in a black kimono, don’t know If I’m remembering right. I remember the scaling being a little subtle, they would block almost all of my attacks and kill me on their counter-attacks, they didn’t lose many HP and I lost a lot, as you said. I think you can adapt to the AI but I’m a very offensive player in fighting games, not good in defense to be honest. Which I think is what they want, good counter attacks, I’m not good at those.

          My friends weren’t really interested in fighting games either, they were mostly horsing around but some could develop some skill and give some decent combos. The bastards knew I played offensively so they were all about counter-attacks. But that’s reason I play mostly single-player though. Don’t care much about the pro-scene too. Some fights are impressive and nice too watch but I think people take that stuff too seriously. Feels like the fun have been thrown out.

  • Mr.Towel

    Fighting games… not much to say this time around. Nobody likes or played the fighting games I mastered. I mean, when was the last time you heard about Bloody Roar I and II?

    Guilty Gear is known but more about its infamous quirkiness than the game itself.

    Never been too interested in Tekken but I remember I liked how the controls were weird, it was not just another copy of SFII combos.

    • Disqusted

      I remember playing Bloody Roar 1 and 2 for a while. Didn’t master them, though. I remember dying to boss Uriko a bazillion times.

  • Hawk Hopper

    I don’t understand why people like the Dreamcast so much.

    • Mr.Towel

      I personally don’t like the Dreamcast very much, no memories with it, but it does represent the end of an era, the fall of Sega.

      Also, I think people liked it back then for the same reasons people likes Nintendo today: they were trying things differently, lots of crazy ideas around Dreamcast. Most of it didn’t worked, but still, full of gimmicks. I’ve yet to see a fishing controller so full of bells and whistles for example.

      • Hawk Hopper

        What was the crazy thing the DC tried? Not being a game console/DVD player at a time when DVD players cost hundreds of dollars?

        • Mr.Towel

          From the top of my head I remember being impressed by the novelty of their memory card, the VMU, who had its own buttons, could be docked inside the middle of the controller, display game information while gaming and could be plugged in some Sega arcade machines to transfer your data.

          There was all sort of crazy accessories to plug in (like that fishing rod I spoke about), similar to the crazy accessories for the original NES. Mics, arcade joysticks, hell, even a fucking camera, a webcam, since the crapper had connection to the internet. I don’t think you could do anything with it but it was there. Because of these things, for many people, the DC was “ahead of its time”, with mics, cameras, screen on controllers, internet connection and the like. Nothing was ever used well though.

          As I said, it was more about these crazy ideas. I’m not saying they’re good ideas, or well-executed ones, most of them are crap, but they’re interesting novelties for like, 10 minutes. I think there are lots of people who like this sort of design. Nintendo was certainly going for this kind of design with the original Wii and their game accessories. Which went down mostly to cheap plastic crap attached to the controller, it’s just a useless gimmick, a novelty. But some people dig that can of stuff.

          I think the Dreamcast was the first home console to have screaming mechanics inside some games. Like, you had to scream to the controller to do stuff in the game. Err… just remember NES had a headset which could shoot by screaming too. But you get the idea, it’s crazy, quirky, gimmicky stuff.

          • Hawk Hopper

            What I’m getting at is that the PS2 could play DVDs, which is something people wanted a lot more than the gimmicks the DC had. And when I read about people talking about the DC, or when they make videos about it, they never seem to mention anything besides the VMU.

          • Mr.Towel

            Indeed, PS2 was by far the best choice for that time. Also, most people never had most of accessories I mentioned, we only knew it existed through magazine. It’s the usual rose tinted glasses of nostalgia.

    • Disqusted

      I dunno about other people, but I had a bunch of games on my Dreamcast that I liked. Resident Evil Code Veronica, Dead or Alive, Jet Set Radio, SF3 Double Impact, 3rd Strike, Dynamite Deka 2, etc. I forget what else.

      Most of them got ported to other systems later, though… often with upgrades to make the Dreamcast completely obsolete. Which was really annoying. And I think there were a lot of games that I hoped would be good, but were not.

      Hardware wise, I like the look of the console. Hate the gamepad so much. It’s too big for my hands. Also didn’t care for that VMU? thing.

      • Hawk Hopper

        I think the gamepad was just badly designed and feels cheap.

        From that list of games you like on the DC, I only like Dynamite Cop. Sega let too many of its IPs from the Genesis die.

    • RichardGristle

      If you liked fighting games and shmups – basically arcade games – then it was THE system.

      Also free games đŸ˜›

      • Hawk Hopper

        I have Giga Wings 2 and Mars Matrix. Those are good.

    • Forgotten One

      because it had shenmue?